STRIDING THROUGH STRUGGLE: Kit Birks on Addiction, Recovery & Walking for Mental Health

>> Lee Crompton: All right folks, here we are with another slice of mind cake. And tonight I am so chuffed and privileged to be joined by Kit Burks. Hello Kit, how are you this evening?

>> Paul Beeson: Hi. I'm very, very well, thanks, Paul. How are you?

>> Lee Crompton: I'm, doing away. I'm doing away. Not too bad. Now Kit, I have been today looking at your Instagram profile and seeing the kind of stuff that you are getting up to at the moment. I don't want to spoil too much because I want to let you talk about that, but you are a mental health advocate, you are a writer, a poet. Soon to be published poet.

>> Paul Beeson: Yes, soon to be published poet, yeah.

>> Lee Crompton: And soon to be record breaking hiker as well.

>> Paul Beeson: I know, there's a lot going on there.

>> Lee Crompton: There is and I'm so excited that you're here to talk about it all.

Don was diagnosed with anorexia and bulimia at 13

But before we get to all the stuff you're doing now, can you tell us a bit about yourself, where you came from, what your personal journey with mental health has been all about.

>> Paul Beeson: I'm from Hampshire, England. so I was raised in a lovely loving family. So, you know, very lucky in the way that I was brought up with two parents that are married, still married, brother and sister, tight unit family growing up, you know, no, no childhood trauma, no triggers, no nothing like that to set me off. But from a really young age, from, about 11, 12, I started to have things like insomnia and started to just genuly struggle with things like depression and anxiety. And from the age of about 13, developed anorexia, was anorexic and bulimic from a young age and was put on antidepressants from the age of 13, 40, 14, really, really struggled with that and was really, really unwell with anorexia. Taken out of school, could only really come in to sit exams when needed. It really, it, it was actually really crippling and the school I went to wasn't very accepting of it. I was actually taken into the headmistress's office and was told, you don't have a problem and you're not allowed to speak to any of your friends about this.

>> Lee Crompton: Oh. O my God. That's unbelievable.

>> Paul Beeson: She said that I could only eat my meals in like the medical centre. It was so an already really secretive disease was kept even more secretive and it was so, it was just really awful and really bad, to put it lightly. But I decided to leave that school at six form and I was starting to get better, with my anorexia it was starting to get a lot better. It wasn't amazing but it was, you know, starting to get a bit m. More manageable. Through that whole time I'd been going to a lot of therapy, doing cbt. Yeah, was kind of starting to get there. Yeah. So I went to sixth form and things were. I was still really skinny, and really unwell, more with the bulimia side, still struggling and still not knowing how to manage it. And I think nobody at that time was like, oh, she's doing okay. but you know, not doing really that well. And it's so weird to think back then that it still was a topic that was still very much not spoken about. You didn't really know where to go to for help and you kind of kid yourself into thinking that you're doing better than you are. I guess so, yeah. It was it was a weird one at that age. And that was sort of the age that I started to find, drugs and alcohol mainly at like weekends. And I found, I guess quite late on in life you could say, you know, from some addicts you might think you kind of finding it at maybe 14, 15. But because I had anorexia I was way too scared to consume the calories of alcohol. And I guess because of my anorexive I didn't really know how to let loose. So I was given a licence basically, at that age to let loose with alcool drugs and alcohol. And I was someone that. It was never one, it was always oblivion. Which at that age is just, oh, that's just fun. You know, you're someone that is having fun. The consequences of your actions aren't that deep or that bad at that age. But as my kind of progressed into my 20s, it's when things started to get way, way out of hand and I was drinking far too much, went to university, had a really traumatic event happened to me and it just led to drugs and alcohol being something that I just took every day, all day, started to act out really badly, lying to my family, hurting those around me. But it wasn't known that that was the problem. It wasn't like, oh, she's an alcoholic, she's an addict. It was just like, she's behaving awfully and this is, you know, what's wrong with her. And that's what I thought myself. I thought, why am I acting like this? This is. I can't. I Don't know why. And it just. Yeah, it turned into a lot of poisonous years. There was a time where I did remain abstinent for a while. I just thought I'd have a bit of a problem. So I stopped taking drugs and alcohol about nine months and then thought, oh, yeah, I'm okay. And one thing led to another. I got triggered by a massive episode and I got diagnosed with ptsd. And, that's when my using and drinking really started taking off again at the age of about 26. And at that time I was training to be a nurse and I actually just stopped my training. My relationship ended because of it. I moved back in with my parents and things just got a lot, lot worse at that stage. At that stage, I moved back in with my parents and, I kind of. I kept all my. My drinking. I was with a really lovely boyfriend at the time before this happened, who kind of was so supportive through my ptssd. But he started to realise, you know, I was replacing all the bottles of gin in the house with water. My behaviour was so out of line all the time drinking. And he was someone that didn't drink. And so my excuse was, he doesn't get it. He's boring. Cause he doesn't drink. Bless him. Yeah. So I moved back in with my parents and, they could tell that things were getting really out of hand. And my. I remember being upstairs and on the driveway where my car is. My dad was looking in my car, which is where all the empty bottles were. All my paraffernalia was. And I thought, they're gonna have an intervention. And that idea was so much scarier than stopping drinking in drugs. I got into my car the next morning, for some reason, drove to Cornwall.

>> Lee Crompton: Wow.

>> Paul Beeson: No idea why. Drove to Cornwall, went to stay with a friend, and then I couldn't stay at hers. Cause she was going somewhere and I didn't know what to do. So I was sleeping in my car for a while. My car got broken into. Homeless for a while, started living in really bad places. But for me it was like, this is amazing because no one's telling me to. I'm living with people that are using like I was using. And that last year of my active addiction was the most horrendous time of my life. My family had no idea where I was.

>> Lee Crompton: So you weren't in touch with your family at all during this time?

>> Paul Beeson: Sporadically, really. Sporadically. But most of the time, not. They didn't know where I was. Most of the time. They didn't know what I was up to most of the time. I put them through hell on earth.

Kitty had multiple suicide attempts after becoming addicted to drugs and alcohol

I stole their peace of mind is what I tell people. That is the biggest thing I saw from them was their peace of mind. That year, it was a year of my whole life was drugs in, in all its forms. Waking up and using every single day to oblivion and multiple suicide attempts to the point of dying and being brought back to life. It was just absolutely horrenous. And I went from living in Cornwall Newi to then going up and living in the Hebrides with my boyfriend at the time who was also an addict. Basically things got way out of hand up in the Heridesees and I ended up having to leave the island after a year of like my family not really knowing where I was. And I remember I was on the ferry, I was by myself, the relationship had ended and it was, wasn't won't going into it wasn't good. I left and I got on the ferry and I phone, phone, phone my dad, a mum and they were like where are you? And I was like I'm on a ferry, going from the Hereides back to Oban. They were like how, what are you doing up there? And I was like you know things are bad. I've had written off my car, drink driving. It was s just so bad. My dad and my mum blessed them like right, well how are we gonna get you home then? How are we gonna get you home? And I was like what? Like after everything I had no money so my dad's like right I've got you a hostel in Oburn, I've got you a train and I've got you a coach to London and then I got you a train and he said you're staying with your sister in London for the night. I was unrecognisable. I was puffy from all the drinking. I had bruises everywhere, cut like it was just, it was awful. Eventually got home to my parents still drinking, still using to the point where like it was just so bad and I just couldn't stop. And I think up until this point I didn't think I was an addict. I just thought loads of bad things had happened to me and therefore I had an excuse to behave the where I was. I couldn't pinpoint the fact that it was the drugs and alcohol. But when I got home to parents, my parents and they were like hiding all the alcohol, like hiding the keys and I like as soon as they left the house I was ripping up places, you know I Realised, oh, maybe this is a problem. but also what was really bad is that I was again like properly suicidal. And the crisis team for the uk, my parents thought we don't know what to do. Like we ll phone the crisis team. It took them two weeks, that was the crisis team to get back to me. And it was just there were so many problems there. Like two weeks for a crisis team just to get back to you for initial call. Like, well if someone's, you know, at that point, luckily I had people around me that wouldn't leave me, they wouldn't leave me alone. Anyway, eventually I just got to this point where I was like, right, I don't know how I'm gonna live anymore with the jugs, but I also don't know how I'm gonna live without them. Like, this is really hard, like how am I supposed to do this? And I had a friend from school who I followed on Instagram and she kept on posting like milestones, like six months, eight months, years. And I was like what is this? And I reached out to her. Normally when I was obliterated, that being like I think I have a problem. And then I'd wake up in the morning and think that's an awful idea. But it just got to this point where like there was no booze I could get to, definitelyn'get to any drugs. I was drinking like mouthwash and like nail varnish. And like I was like this is, this is mental. So I remember messaging her and she was like, right, I'm calling you tomorrow, I'm gonna take you to a meeting. Okay, but no excuses. And I remember writing a note to my parents almost like is a way I couldn'back out to it, out of it. And I wrote this note and I was like, I think I'm an addict, I really need help. I'm gonna get help, I promise. And I put this note like in front of their like bedroom door. So when they opened up the door the next morning they'd see, see it. I was like. And they saw it and they're like yeah, no shit Kitty. Like of course, of course you're an addict. Like, but the thing is like with addiction, it's a self proclaimed disease. Like people can tell you but unless you're ready to say it yourself, you're not going to do anything about it. But anyway, I went to a meeting the next day and then since that day on June 2nd, 2022, I've been clean. Which is, yeah, two nearly coming up. Well, three years this June, which is mental. But, yeah, so I've remained clean and worker programme of recovery to stay clean. I realised there were still things wrong. So I got that summer. Later that summer, August, I got diagnosed with adhd. And then kind of continuing through my recovery, I realised and even with being had the ADHD diagnosis, which made sense of so much, I was like, I was still going through, like, peaks and troughs and still feeling really suicidal. And I remember speaking to people and throughout my life I've been told this, which is why I can't. They're like, we never know which kitty. I'm Kitty to my family. We never know which kitty we're gonna get. And I was like, okay. And, you know, I'd speak to people about these ups and downs and was like, yeah, it's just normal to get yo yos. But I was like, no, but I go from, like, feeling like I'm on top of the world to like, suicide or what. I don't get what's going on. And so I got eventually diagnosed with bipolar disorder. And as hard as that was, oh, my God, was it biggest relief. It made sense of addiction, it made sense of my eating disorder, it made sense of the insomnia, it made sense of the depression and why none of these other medications worked because it was all the wrong medication for what I had. So I guess that's been my journey with mental health. And although it's still. Still a struggle and it's not plain sailing, I know all the things I'm dealing with now, so I kind of have a good little structure about how to deal with those things. So that'that's. I guess, in a nutshell, a very big nutshell. That's my journey.

>> Lee Crompton: That was a coconut shell, that, wasn't it? What a story.

You are very open and honest about your journey with mental health

well, first, thanks for being so open and honest about it. I know that's something you pride yourself on. You are very open and honest about your journey and so. Well, thank you for sharing. First of all, how old are you, if you don't mind me asking?

>> Paul Beeson: I'm 29.

>> Lee Crompton: You're 29?

>> Paul Beeson: Yeah, yeah.

>> Lee Crompton: The big three zero this year.

>> Paul Beeson: It is, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.

>> Lee Crompton: Exciting. When you were going through this stuff at school and it was very much kind of kept secret, you know, with the eating and hiding your meals and the medical. We're not talking about, you know, a huge amount of time, are we? Because of, you know, we're talking about 15 years ago.

>> Paul Beeson: Yeah, 15 years ago.

>> Lee Crompton: and before we kind of. Before we Hit record. Tonight we were talking just in passing about how mental health is talked about more, which is a really good thing. But like we were saying, we still don't think it's enough.

>> Lee Crompton: And you're going back such a short amount of time when it was literally being swept under the carpet.

>> Paul Beeson: Yeah, yeah.

>> Lee Crompton: As a young woman, that must have been really tough. I guess like you just kind of felt you weren't being acknowledged or listened to or.

>> Paul Beeson: It felt, yeah, it felt really like. I think a lot of it felt belittled. Like you're making a big, a big fuss out of nothing. So why speak about this? There's no point in speaking about it. And I guess a lot of it was, even when I ask for help, it's not going toa be received. I'm not go going toa get given the right support, so I should just keep more of this to myself. And I think I adopted that. And I think a lot of it was, if other people aren't going to help me, how can I help myself? And I think I also tried to develop this. I can fix everything myself. Which was never going to be the answer for so many problems. Yeah.

>> Lee Crompton: And I suppose you think, well, why bother even asking if I'm not going to get any anyway? It kind of puts you in that frame of mind, I suppose as well.

>> Paul Beeson: Yeah. And I think also it makes you feel, weird or like not. I mean, weirdness is good. I love weirdness today, but it makes you feel like there's something wrong with you and therefore, like you're diseased. Like, you know, don't speak to your friends about this. Almost like me speaking to it, me speaking about it to other people would spread it onto them, would encourage them to do the same thing. And actually sometimes you just need to speak to someone about it. It's not infectious.

>> Lee Crompton: And being a teenager as well, you've got so much stuff going on.

>> Paul Beeson: Yeah, yeah, well.

>> Lee Crompton: And being made to feel different at that age and stage is not what you need on top of all the other shit you're trying to deal with, you know?

>> Paul Beeson: No, not at all. And it was so, I think it was really difficult. And I had some really great friends who, who were there no matter what and would, you know, I wasn't even allowed to, I was told I wasn't even allowed to text my friendsch, you know, at this point, you know, we're talking about, you know, flip up phones and like you can play Snake on a knockia brick, you know, so it was just text messages, you know, it was like no, you can't, can't even message your friends about this. And obviously it's like well no one's gonna police all the phones. But it's just that it was just mental. It was just mental that you can't talk to your friends about any of it.

>> Lee Crompton: And in those days as well, obviously with the technology it's not that you could easily just hop online or watch YouTube or as shit social media can be at times it is a good way of finding information out and realising you're not alone. Perhaps for young people today if it's you sensibly of course. But again that's you know something that we didn't have access to.

Your heart stopped beating during an overdose, you say

And then so another couple of things as well. I just want to make sure I didn't mishear. You were. Did you actually die? Your heart stopped beating?

>> Paul Beeson: Yeah.

>> Lee Crompton: Resuscitated.

>> Paul Beeson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was such a it was a massive blow. Was, it was, it was a overdose. And do you know what was so crazy about. I remember seeing this in my, in my nurse training with a lot of people that had overdoses and you know might been kept on aw ward overnight if they'd been resuscitatedht back to life. Things like that. It was such a quick turnaround to get them out the door with very, very little follow up or support. And I just remember that being crazy and then being that person as well.

>> Lee Crompton: That went through being on the other.

>> Paul Beeson: Side of it, on the other side of it and it was such bad. But I remember leaving hospital and the first thing I did was go and take more drugs. Addiction is pure insanity and you look back and there is nothing other than to describe it that then you will go to any lengths to keep using. It's pure insanity.

>> Lee Crompton: and after, and after actually dying it's still not enough to.

>> Paul Beeson: No, nothing can pick you off. No, no like, no, you just like nothing will put you off. I've heard so many different other stories. You know something you know, and it was. What's quite comforting now is hearing these other stories from other people that aren't my stories to tell but you know it makes me feel like okay, other people. This is like this is the nature of the disease. This complete insanity that so many people go to crazy lengths and you know, go to death store multiple times and it's still not enough to, to stop. Yeah, that was a really. Probably one of the craziest things but that was also very much an intentional plan. At the time, yeah, that it was a very dark time. And only. Only something recently that I've had to speak to my family about because of this trek. I was like, I'm gonna have to. There's so much that happened, that I've never told them about because I thought I never need to tell them. Yeah, that. That was one of the moments I was like, well, it's goingna come up because this is what the whole trackk is about. To speak about these kind of things more openly. But yeah, that that was a scary, scary moment. But the time I look back on it now, that'scary at the time I.

>> Lee Crompton: Remember it being like, whatever, okay, just another day.

>> Paul Beeson: Yeah, just Yeah. I remember hardly even phasing me. Like that feeling of that didn't scare me. It'it's a weird feeling. I remember that year, this feeling of it's almost like living in limbo constantly. It's a really dangerous path to walk where you don't care if you live or die because, they'therefore you don't care about any of the actions you're taking you because you're walking around almost like you're invincible because you don't care what happens to you either way. And that is the scariest thing and also repercussions that I'm seeing of it now, like financially, whatever. Because I thought, well, I'm never going to see 30. I never. I didn't think I was going to see 30 at all. I really didn't. I remember having a conversation with people when I was living in Cort. I probably won't see 30. I don't. Don't think I will. so you just don't care. So you make so many crazy decisions that you have to live with today. But, yeah, very dangerous place to live. not caring. And today I care, which is good.

>> Lee Crompton: but luckily you are going to be 30 fairly soon.

>> Paul Beeson: October 19th.

>> Lee Crompton: Well, there we go.

>> Paul Beeson: So I'll be somewhere, somewhere in the world at that point.

>> Lee Crompton: Of course, now we'll get ono that. We'll get Ono that very soon because I'm so excited to hear about that.

When did the poetry come into this? Really, really soon in recovery

So if we fast forward a little bit. So you're back with your family getting help or accepting help.

>> Paul Beeson: Yeah.

>> Lee Crompton: When did the poetry come into this?

>> Paul Beeson: Really, really soon in my recovery actually. So I hadn't even got to 30 days clean. I ah, was detoxing at home. Horrendous experience. Very well taken care of by my mum and dad. They're incredible. And I remember this feeling of how am I gonna make sense of myself? I don't understand myself. I don't understand how to face reality. I don't understand how to face my past. And I certainly didn't know how to face my emotions. I've numbed out emotions for about decade and I was like, I just don't. And I can't remember the moment. But for some reason I remember read. Well, I don't remember, but I do remember I must have reached for a pen and paper and I just started writing. And some of my first poems I've never really shared because I didn't really fully form. But one of the poems I did first write was one about how the weather keeps changing in my mind. And that was the first poem I ever wrote. And I kept on writing and kept on writing and it became my way of healing in so many ways, my own personal way, which was, you know, without anybody else of how I could make sense of what was going on inside my head and like get it onto paper in a way that seemed more acceptable than me saying out loud I feel like I don't want to exist anymore or I felt like that. Like it's like a more sort of, I guessed abstract and I guess beautiful way of painting a picture of harsher scenarios and harder feelings. Yeah, I just started writing and then eventually I started sharing them on, on Instagram and mainly on TikTok and just kept sharing them on there and eventually more and more people started hearing them. But it only really started taking off on TikTok, before Christmas this year.

Whitney started writing poetry during recovery after being diagnosed with depression

>> Lee Crompton: Had you written poetry before, like when you were younger or. This was just a out of the blue, I'm just going to start writing and see what happens kind of thing.

>> Paul Beeson: Yeah, I've never written, never written before. Never written any kind of poetry before. No, no, it's not. Not where I thought my life was heading m at at all. I mean it's really started as a hobbyuse during my recovery, went back and I actually finished my nursing degree and qualified as a nurse.

>> Lee Crompton: Oh, fantastic.

>> Paul Beeson: Which was awesome. I was like, wow. But which was really cool. But I was doing the poetry alongside it and just loved it. And now, I'm yeah, wanting to give it a go as a full time thing. All time. Good.

>> Lee Crompton: That's amazing. I did something similar so when I was diagnosed with severe depression when I was teaching and so I actually left the profession and it just so happened a friend of mine was casting for a kids show and I Thought I'll maybe give the acting a try again. Because I trained as an actor when I was younger and then became a drama teacher. And so I went from being like a severely depressed teacher to touring this show, like this kid show. So I was suddenly an actor. And that was kind of good for my recovery and my kind of m. My way to process what I was going through. But then I sat down and wrot. I wrote a one man show based on my experiences and what I was feeling. Now maybe similar to your early poems, I don't think I'll ever perform it or let anybody read it even. Yeah, but it was so cathartic getting all of that out. Not just getting it out and putting it on paper, but in a poetic way, in A creative way. And it was just like a stream of consciousness at times. And then suddenly there was you know, a hundred pages of just on

>> Paul Beeson: I guess I think there's something about doing something creatively. It takes away this barrier of maybe the harsher reality and truth of it. Cause you're doing it in a way that's. So it's a creation. I'm guessing that was's what you. And it feels like it lets down something that is let in and let out.

>> Lee Crompton: Absolutely.

>> Paul Beeson: Rather than just saying it.

>> Lee Crompton: Yeah. And because I mean it was all based on truth and like my character in the play was talking about stuff that I had been going over my head or stuff that had actually happened to me. But in a way there's still a. There's a bit of a separation there because you're like, you know, you are telling the truth about what you've done and it's based on real experiences, real feelings and emotions. But if it was. If anyone was ever going to read it or watch it, it's not like you, you personally are sharing it. I don't know, there was something that channelling onto the paper and then if anybody then chose to read it, it. It was easier than me telling them face to face almost.

>> Paul Beeson: Yeah. Completely. Completely. And I also Sometimes I thought I can always burn the paper. I could always burn it.

>> Lee Crompton: Yah. I could always wipe my hard drive or you know, whatever. Yeah, absolutely. Nobody has to see it if they don't want it. It was a cathartic process. And I was between acting jobs that I just basically sat and I wrote and that became a routine. And then after that I've subsequently gone on to write other plays which have been performed but that aren't about my experience. But that actually took me into taking writing more seriously and now, it'it's part of my thing'what I do now.

>> Paul Beeson: That's amazing.

>> Lee Crompton: But no one will ever see that first thing that got into it, do you know? I mean they'll just see the nice polished stuff that I do with my companies. So. But, but yeah, I'm so pleased that you, that you got into that. And it's just amazing that having had no prior experience or I mean, did you even have an appreciation of poetry or anything like that? From. From school?

>> Paul Beeson: A little bit. Not from school, not from school. I didn't really get into the first time I got into poetry. Weirdly. I remember being on the coach that went from Glasgow to London. 18 hour, 19 hour coach. On my way back down from the Hebrides and I was on Instagram, on the reels and I was, I mean as you can imagine, put out of my mind. But. And in a. Really crying all the time. And Whitney Hann, the poet on Instagram, she's just. And three of her poems just came out on my reels. And I remember being like, wow. And I remember some of them I heard, I was, I couldn't stop crying and I was like, wow, this really, like it hits and it lands and like, ha. And I was reading other people's comments and like they were like, God, I'm weeping here. And I was like, wow, this stuff is. That was my first. That was. I only really look into poetry. But other than that. No, I didn't, you know, I didn't have books of poetry anywhere. I didn't read poetry. I didn't go and look at performing po. Nothing.

>> Lee Crompton: that's, that's amazing. Well, a couple of things there, like just the raw power, like the emotion of art.

>> Paul Beeson: Yeah.

>> Lee Crompton: When you haven't experienced that before and suddenly like, I don't know, you might look at a painting in a museum or listen to a piece of music and you're just, you're moved.

Your poetry found you when you needed to, to find it

>> Lee Crompton: ###E I think for a lot of people go through their life and they, they don't get moved by artistic things.

>> Paul Beeson: No, no.

>> Lee Crompton: And you are so lucky, I guess, in a way, and I guess we all are because your book is going to be out soon. but just, just again, you know, before we came on air we were talking about cosmic alignment and stuff happening at the right time. That poetry found you when you needed to, to find it.

>> Paul Beeson: 100%.

>> Lee Crompton: Can you imagine if all the reels were just like kittens falling Off CIS and shit. Do you know what I mean? Might have.

>> Paul Beeson: Might have never. Never have found it.

>> Lee Crompton: But that's just. It's crazy. Just a little. A little exposure.

>> Paul Beeson: Yeah. Can just suddenly give your mind that idea.

>> Lee Crompton: Yeah.

>> Paul Beeson: I just feel so lucky. I, would generally go through all those years of addiction again just to be able to write. Because I don't ever want this writing to be taken away from me. It's like it heals me every day, even now. Yeah.

Brian, do you write every day or just when the mood takes you

>> Lee Crompton: Brian, do you write every day, or do you try to write every day, or just when the mood takes you?

>> Paul Beeson: I try to write every day. I have more of a routine now. I kind of write every morning. Every morning I write. But that's only really been adopted in the last sort of year where I've actually sat down and be like, right, you're gonna write no matter what. Whereas before it was more like, I'rightite when something happens, but then it would normally be me writing on, like, big emotions. And sometimes I don't want to write about big emotions. And I always carry a notepad with me. And a lot of the time I'll just, I'll write down, like, sentences over here on trains or buses or train stations. Amazing airports. Fantastic. People watching, even people watching. People watching that a lot. Some of my poems are just about people watching. And I love those ones because they're full of, like. And still, you know, people comment on them going, God, this has really made me cry. And I think it's just that, like, human connection, you know, Just like we're all so similar and painting a picture. so I love that love. Just like writing always jotting down, like, little things or bugs I see or trees that look like they're hugging or whatever it's going to be.

You seem to spend a lot of time in nature during your recovery

>> Lee Crompton: So judging by your social media, like, you go out walking, you seem to spend a lot of time in nature. Is that consciously being part of your recovery, or is that something that you've always kind of had a draw to the great outdoors?

>> Paul Beeson: I've always loved nature. That has definitely got stronger in my recovery. It was sort of finding something bigger than myself to believe in, like a higher power, which I. Or a God, whatever you want God to be called. Doesn't have to be a religious God. I just remember being drawn to nature as a way of healing me as something that was bigger than me, to help me understand that, like, I'm not the one in control here. Because me being in control mean m has led me to being an addict. So there's got to be something bigger than me that, that can kind of help me stay centred. Yeah, like just nature is some a way of me that it just makes me feel calm and at peace with myself and it makes me feel like I can just be. Doesn't really ask any questions, you know, the wind wraps around the tree this way the same way it wraps around around me, you know, like, you know, it's just're just another piece of it at the end of the day. And yeah, I absolutely love, I love nature. It definitely led me to sort of finding out my authentic self as well because I didn't know who I was before I put down the drink in, in the drugs. And yeah, nature kind of gave me the capacity to sort of let down loads of barriers, I guess. And I love it. I absolutely love it.

>> Lee Crompton: And, and I guess like you said, like that also inspires your writing. Like just being out and about and seeing stuff, feeling stuff influences your writing.

>> Paul Beeson: I mean we're all everything that happens in nature is what's happening to us. You know, nature goes through periods of wintering just like we do. I'm doing an immersive poetry workshop soon where I'm taking people out into nature and sort of sayingkay, how can we draw? And a lot of it'about I do it through envy. Like, why would I envy this tree? Well, this tree goes through like brutal winters where it gets knocked around by like wind and snow and like harsh, harsh cold with no leaves. But it completely trusts that spring'going to come and it's going to shoot beautiful green leaves. And it's just like we go through the same thing. We get battered around. We go through real crap in our lives and these huge moments of struggle. But we've just got to believe that through this process, like the wintering is part of growth and we're going to come out again and bloom and sadly we'll probably have to go through all again. But it makes us stronger and grow every single time, every single winter.

>> Lee Crompton: Absolutely. and still standing.

>> Paul Beeson: Still standing. Yeah. Our roots are deep.

>> Lee Crompton: It seems brilliant, you know, because obviously have t. I haven't read your book because it's not out, yet. Can you tell us when it's going to actually hit the shelves?

>> Paul Beeson: So still trying to get an exact date. There's still some like, little details that I wasn't 100% like, happy with. And I think I've come this far and as much as I want to be like, I just want to get it out as soon as possible. I'm kind of thinking, no, I want it to be something I'm super proud of, so. But it's going to be within the next six weeks. So soon W. It is soon.

>> Lee Crompton: Have you seen like cover art and stuff like that? That's all been.

>> Paul Beeson: Yeah, I love it.